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  • #16
    Project "JESSAT"

    I've with Nick on this one. The 16vT is a lot of fun if you are willing to put the time and money into it. I'm talking time after the initial purchase too. You have to be constantly tweaking it untill it is right.

    Kinetic motorsports is coming out with a bolt on turbo setup for the 16v similar to the old matrix one. If you got that it would be relativly reliable. the problem most people (including myself) have is feuling.

    You can try to make a factory system work but will probably never get it quite right. This leads to pre-mature engine failure. Otherwise you can spend the green on a stand-alone system but you'd better be pretty good at tuning it or hire someone who is.

    The Vr with a supercharger is a proven combo that is relatively easy to install and comparatively cheap.
    Ben Zeeuw
    1981 Rabbit Racer
    1998 Audi Avant Grocery Getter
    www.germanautoltd.com

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    • #17
      Project "JESSAT"

      Originally posted by zeeuwvw
      relatively easy to install
      Out of a B3? I disagree.

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      • #18
        Project "JESSAT"

        Originally posted by gearhead455
        Originally posted by zeeuwvw
        relatively easy to install
        Out of a B3? I disagree.
        As compared to a fully custom 16vT?

        He would probably want to re-build the motor and lower the compression. Then there's the whole custom feul system and tubing fabrication. The Vr swap is a lot more documented and requires less fabrication.
        Ben Zeeuw
        1981 Rabbit Racer
        1998 Audi Avant Grocery Getter
        www.germanautoltd.com

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        • #19
          Project "JESSAT"

          He has a B3, most of the parts he needs he does not even have.

          like the entire subframe!

          Turbo plumbing is comparatively easy over B3 parts into a A2 = :evilbat:

          The injection does not have to be balls-to-the-wall stand alone... G60 digi1 will work and it's cheep. Custom fuel rail? Ross Machine Racing makes them for $165



          Compression? if he is in the engine anyway just get low comp pistons.

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          • #20
            Project "JESSAT"

            Yeah, I still don't agree. I've run digifant 1 and it sucks monkey dicks. Lots of people have run it for a while but it isn't a long-term reliable solution.

            The ease of fabricating boost tubes and dropping in low compression pistons is relative to your experience which I'd venture to say is pretty minimal in Rob's case. Bolting up factory parts for a VR swap is a better choice for a novice. You don't have to open up the motor and there is very little fabrication. Sure, the wiring could be a challenge, but it would be just as hard for the 16vT.

            I don't know anyone who has built a 16vT and run it for a long time with no problems.

            The SC VR however, is a tried and true combo. I'm not saying it will be easy from the B3. Obviously there will be some additional parts sourcing. I'm just saying for his purposes and skill level (I know the guy a bit) the VR would probably be the better long term solution.
            Ben Zeeuw
            1981 Rabbit Racer
            1998 Audi Avant Grocery Getter
            www.germanautoltd.com

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            • #21
              Project "JESSAT"

              Originally posted by gearhead455


              Dependability!?! You want to put a supercharger on a 130,000 mile VR6 over a 0 mile 16v turbo? :nuts:
              you would be surprised how many VR6 cars that are blown AFTER 100K on the motor and are VERY reliable. I know someone with 130K BOOSTED miles on a VR6 (just changed from SC to turbo a few months back) and pushing around 15 lbs. of boost reliably. VR6's take the shit and keep on going man. Not saying a 16vT with zero miles wouldn be a bad idea in this situation; because of how many good cars he would have to chop up. But im with Ben that a SC VR6 is more reliable, until you do get the 16vT running correctly, but by then who knows!

              In this case I would just go 16vT though because the passat vr swap is not as easy as using a corrado or mk3 donor car.
              Matt
              DCC #0
              ...we all started out with the same tools dream it, build it, breathe it.

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              • #22
                Project "JESSAT"

                Wow, exellent imput from all!, Great looks like I might have to source a MK3 or corrado donor for the transplant. I have been doing ALOT of research lately and you all have good points. I see the reasoning why I should not use a B3 as a donor and or using the GLI. Hey Ben is there a website or contact number for that turbo setup from Kinetic? I will definately take all your input into consideration as I can agree with Ben that I am not the most experienced under the hood, but I do share the same respect and love for our cars, and Im sure it will all work out in the end!! :angel:
                Can anyone tell me why a B3 Passat wagon is so rare anyway??

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                • #23
                  Project "JESSAT"

                  Originally posted by dub founded
                  Can anyone tell me why a B3 Passat wagon is so rare anyway??
                  the fact that it has a 5-speed is what makes it an odd variant. passat wagons aren't all that common to begin with, but finding one with a stick is a damn nice score!


                  And as for the Kinetic kit.. the last response I heard from Jeremy at Kinetic was the following... "We have 90% of the parts in stock to make a kit for you. There will be some things you need to make but most of the hard parts are done." and here's the contact...
                  Jeremy
                  Kinetic Motorsport
                  Ph#(604)882-9962
                  http://www.kineticmotorsport.com
                  -Nick V-
                  Current: '88 Golf GL 2.0 16V / '82 Caddy Diesel
                  Favorite Past Dubs: '92 Corrado VR6, '99.5 APR Stg.3 A4, '91 GTI 8V, '81 Rabbit Truck,

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                  • #24
                    Project "JESSAT"

                    Originally posted by zeeuwvw
                    I've run digifant 1 and it sucks monkey dicks. Lots of people have run it for a while but it isn't a long-term reliable solution
                    My G60 had 145K miles on it and I never once caught my digi1 sucking a monkey dick.

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                    • #25
                      Project "JESSAT"

                      Originally posted by D bot
                      you would be surprised how many VR6 cars that are blown AFTER 100K on the motor and are VERY reliable. I know someone with 130K BOOSTED miles on a VR6 (just changed from SC to turbo a few months back) and pushing around 15 lbs. of boost reliably. VR6's take the shit and keep on going man. Not saying a 16vT with zero miles wouldn be a bad idea in this situation; because of how many good cars he would have to chop up. But im with Ben that a SC VR6 is more reliable, until you do get the 16vT running correctly, but by then who knows!

                      In this case I would just go 16vT though because the passat vr swap is not as easy as using a corrado or mk3 donor car.
                      Yeah... and I replaced 2 blown up stock VR6 engines with less than 100K (actually one of them failed at 70K)... so.... yeah.

                      Supercharging any engine at 130K is a bad idea... I don't care if Jesus Christ himself built it... This... is... not even worth explaining. :evilbat:

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                      • #26
                        Project "JESSAT"

                        Originally posted by gearhead455
                        Originally posted by zeeuwvw
                        I've run digifant 1 and it sucks monkey dicks. Lots of people have run it for a while but it isn't a long-term reliable solution
                        My G60 had 145K miles on it and I never once caught my digi1 sucking a monkey dick.
                        Yeah, it was great on my stock G60 as well. It wasn't until after I installed the 16vT that things got hairy. The stock G60 injectors are not good for a lot of horsepower. The only way to run larger injectors well is with a custom programed chip. I went through like 5 or 6 chips from SNS tuning and it never ran right. In the end I melted a set of custom JEs (my fault), and blew a head gasket (chip's fault). All in all not a great choics in my mind.
                        Ben Zeeuw
                        1981 Rabbit Racer
                        1998 Audi Avant Grocery Getter
                        www.germanautoltd.com

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Project "JESSAT"

                          Originally posted by zeeuwvw

                          Yeah, it was great on my stock G60 as well. It wasn't until after I installed the 16vT that things got hairy. The stock G60 injectors are not good for a lot of horsepower. The only way to run larger injectors well is with a custom programed chip. I went through like 5 or 6 chips from SNS tuning and it never ran right. In the end I melted a set of custom JEs (my fault), and blew a head gasket (chip's fault). All in all not a great choics in my mind.
                          At what pressure? If you run a 16V T at 10 PSI the digi1 should be able to handle it... that's what a G60 runs. You could always run an EGT gauge to keep tabs on the mixture... the ignition is knock sensor too on a digi1.

                          Lots of boost I would assume that stand alone would be the way to go.

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                          • #28
                            Project "JESSAT"

                            Even at 10psi the stock injectors were having trouble keeping up. Probably because the 16v flows more then the 8v. When I toasted the motor I was running 18psi or so with larger injectors. It was still rich as a pig.

                            I had an EGT guage and an a/f light show. I somhow still managed to fry the motor twice. :roll:

                            Now I've got stand alone and a wideband. That should do the trick.
                            Ben Zeeuw
                            1981 Rabbit Racer
                            1998 Audi Avant Grocery Getter
                            www.germanautoltd.com

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                            • #29
                              Project "JESSAT"

                              realistically speaking, if it was a 30k mile mint gli then yes, for god's sake preserve it.but it's just a clean, high mileage late 80's gli (no offence).just like the other thousands of the out there, not that unique. thats the beauty of these cars, the number of them! I own & have ownered several of them. as for the 16v vs. VR6 question, motronic beats CIS-E anyday hands down. yes, the VR6 makes it nose heavy & not much good for a track car, but thats not what he's building right? Just a quick daily driver. I agree with Ben,16vT is nice but they are usually temperamental,unforgiving,and hard to keep tuned. where as with the VR6 & a supercharger, chip it & be done. as for the parts needed for a VR6 swap from a B3, its not that drastic, I would do it in a second. you should try to find a clutch cable pivot for a Brazilian B3, you want to talk about hard to find!!! Anyway, I say go for it, nothing ventured, nothing gained!

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                              • #30
                                Project "JESSAT"

                                I agree with Ben. I spent countless hours screwing around with Digi 1 in my swap and it was a nightmare. In stock form it is fine, but it is nearly impossible to tune it properly for a performance motor.

                                I tried countless chip/injector combos, countless co-pot settings, and I still ended up frying the motor. The fact of the matter is, you dont just throw a 16vT together like you do with a VR6 swap. The VR6 swap is so well documented and copied that pretty much anyone with some decent automotive electrical and mechanical knowledge can pull it off. The motor, for the most part, is a beast. I totally disagree with the statement that you cant supercharge a 130k VR6. If the motor is in good shape, with good compression and what not, it is no different than a 70k VR6. The motor doesnt know how old it is, so why does it matter?

                                The 16vt on the other hand is a totally different animal. You need alot of mechanical and electrical knowledge. The motor itself usually needs to be changed internally to accept boost, not to mention standalone, and then getting the whole thing to work. If you are on anysort of limited budget, this is NOT the way to go. VR6 all the way :!:
                                2008 Rabbit
                                2001 Jetta GLS VR6
                                1989 Coupe 1.8T

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